It was subject to the command of the local Reichswehr These numbers were accountability numbers and were assigned to the policeman that carried the bayonet, as it remained the property of the issuing city. Pictured are multiple views of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster. The first set of letters on the line indicate the military or police unit As a matter of note the police cleaning rod could be used without the barrel attached muzzle protector. When found, the holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition. Even though the unidentified holster has been modified to fit a P.08, it is suggested by collectors that the Railway Protection Police mostly used non-Luger pistols. This set of two is consecutively numbered. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? Remnants of the original artillery holster body up-strap attachment are visible; the cover flap keeper strap and the brass stud were removed and the hole was plugged in the cover flap and a belt buckle/strap closure, as stated above was added. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. This information came from a small book I have named The Luger Handbook by Aarron Davis. Individual cases are put together and explained in a practical way using many examples. A remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels? formed mostly from former servicemen. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. Figure 47c shows a table or bench with several Police Lugers and accessories and particularly interesting in the foreground is a muzzle protector, next to three training rounds. The eagle in front is the type of the Weimar era and was in use from 1919 - 1939. The holster front is stamped L.Z.A. There was an identical Zeitz marked holster offered for $695 on the web site of a major Luger retailer, however, stating in the description, specifically, that the holster is a WW2 police issue: ">WW2 police issue. Get Guns.com offers and news!! Pictured is an (officers) Upper Silesian "Landespolizei" buckle. stamping for another letter or number, but since the upper portion of the left side rectangle enclosure line is partially obscured by the steel washer, resulting in a light stamping, missing a possible letter or number, which is a result of stamping too close to the underside washer, securing the cover flap steel stud. Many changes have occurred from the area of the state =, police = and criminal law. Despite the fact that both Weimar Lugers and Condition:--not specified . [11]. The device was manufactured by ERMA and is police E/B marked. We talked to a subject matter expert who repairs WW1 / WW2 h This example has all matching serial numbers. equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras. 19-130 text caption Sturgess specifically states that the cleaning rod pouch of the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, currently of the LOB collection, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, which is inaccurate as the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force were ammended in August Weiss confirms that these pistols were sold by Mauser to the German Police; this solves my problem. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. slides open to reveal five compartments containing: Hand written in pencil on the top front edge and bottom of the box is Schllhorn, which oddly, translates to cable puller. Tom answers that question and gives a detailed . These Nazi Police bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which is a misnomer. Pictured is a 1915 dated P. Braunleder Cln If you collect Lugers, you need this book. Sticky: Book Review History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings. Brief explanation of the Danish HIPO-organization (as the name is mentioned again and again): HIPO was a Danish corps, established 1944 by the German Gestapo, recruited among Danish traitors after, most of the Danish policemen on September 19th 1944 were arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany. In actuality, a really rhetorical issue, as except for the two pictured and discussed holsters, being the only known published examples noted to date. Pictured are two views of a 1933 dated A. FISCHER BERLIN C.2, sunburst (1929-36) stamped police holster, issue or pistol serial number 38. Description. Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris. Checkered walnut grips are not numbered. 19-216). 1: 506: Discontinued use of markings. These bayonets also originally had a Prussian Eagle adorned clam shell device under the grip. 12 - item 12 of the first centuria within command II in the The lack of a holster maker on the rear, between the belt loops is not unusual considering its WW1 Imperial army origins, however, there is also no evidence of a maker mark under the cover flap. I figured out the other markings from earlier posts. They sure set off a display real nice. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. The Fraktur typefaces were particularly heavily used during the rise of Nazism, when they were initially represented as true German script. It was Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. 3. links[8]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; Additionally, this holster was used extensively as evidenced by its less than pristine condition, possibly being carried in the late days of the war in the defense of Berlin. Thanks. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. that the item was issued to. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled K police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7307; view 1, Captain Ernst Roehm, future head of the SA [Sturmabteilung, a.k.a. Muzzle protectors along with police Lugers have been identified with police markings Xd out. 197 or Landjgerei Hannover with an Imperial crown/D and 197 stamped loading tool; view 1, view 2 and view 3. This is particularly believable as this holster was not for a primary combat activity. Military Control Commission), was established to enforce the provisions of It is interesting to note that this is the only published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover Police holster so marked. - Kommando Nuernberg-Fuerth, berittene Abteilung, gun 5, W.K.S.5. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. S.B.S.I 1.7 - item 7 in the 1st Centuria within command I of the South Regarding the completely intact magazine safety of 4559t, very few of these police Lugers survived as nearly all of these magazine safety assemblies were deactivated by cutting off the front end of the mechanism under a decree of May 1937. by dk598 16 Aug 2016, 04:12. These cut-back, modified/converted artillery LP.08 holsters are discussed in Weimar Lugers by J. As to whether any police Lugers were used in caliber 7.65 mm is uncertain, however, one example pictured in Luger Variations by Harry Jones 1959, page 291 titled: 1920 POLICE WITH CHAMBER MARKINGS with the claim that during police service the Sear Safety Luger was chambered for the 7.65 m/m cartridge. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. A sear safety has been added. Please report any errors to me. Pictured is one such P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector 2866, where no additional marks were added. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. All P-08 Military Lugers. Die Reubearbeitung schlietzt mit dem Monat Mai 1921 ab. In the TBLAP, Fig. Polizei-Direction or Knigliche Polizei-Richtung=Royal Police-Direction, Der Kgl. RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, The lower attachment of the left belt loop has been crudely reinforced with wire, probably while in service. I. German Police Forces during the Weimar Era, [This information is lifted almost verbatim from Weimar and Early The side cover and the left high edge has mild wear. 1/11/23 - This is an original WW2 era production Luger magazine. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. Need [email protected] (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. $2,535.00 Compare ERFURT 1918 MILITARY - D13019 According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. Regarding the necessity to modify a cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to accommodate a Police cleaning rod is questioned, as the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster, as stated earlier, was acquired with a Police steel shaft cleaning rod with brass stopper, fully inserted in the original, unmodified cleaning rod pouch/sleeve, albeit a cover flap modified by adding a section of leather, allowing the cover flap to completely close over the seven ring wooden barrel Police cleaning rod handle. It is not very important if the delivery of these pistols took place just before the 1st of January 1930, or just after (invoiced by Mauser).". Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. Collectors tend to err toward a variation 2 style ERMA made and marked muzzle protector that is, interestingly a different mechanical design than the above, variation 1 spring tension muzzle protector that attaches to the barrel with a one-step process by sliding, then rotating clockwise, over the barrel sight band/blade assembly, then released in detent, held in place by spring tension. $1,000. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. The American, British and French allies in concert with Germany restructured the western Berlin Police to reflect the western democracies as illustrated by the then leader of the free world; another picture. No tool pouch. Luger Extractor Marks Luger Safety Marks Luger Magazine Marks Light sheet steel body with crimped edges. the same style holster pictured with a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319. By Bade, 16 April , 2021 in Arms and other weapons. 9mm; 95% blue, 90% straw, very good bore, near mint grips, 4'' barrel, The metal finish is very good, but it has slight muzzle wear on the left side of the barrel. Per Weimar Lugers by J. information about where such materiel have been (e.g., which battles in links[2]='http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com'; A complete discussion of German: Foreign Mfg. No Longer Available. Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster with an under-the-cover flap, ink stamped maker in three lines: Koffer- u. Lederwarghnfabrik ZeitzS.L.V.SaaleZeitz or Holster and Leather Goods Factory ZeitzS.L.V.SaaleZeitz. (For more information, consult The Imperial German ----------------------------------------------------------- page 5 ----------------------------------------------------------. The holster was obtained with a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft Sunburst S (1932-36), specifically made to be used with police Lugers. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 12 ----------------------------------------------------------, Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Opinion 2: I'm convinced that this is an Air Factory Werkschutz holster. It is interesting to note however that no pistols having a blank toggle and the 'v' suffix have been reported so far. (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. The lack of relevant textbooks has often been put to the test. It is not known if the J. Walter, page 149 pictured muzzle protector is police acceptance marked, although he does specifically state that the pictured, variation 1 muzzle protector was used in conjunction with the police cleaning rod. This was naturally discontinued with the dissolution of the This was the largest of the HZa's and located in Bavaria. 3 days Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 POLICE, SIMSON REWORK. The bases for these identifications are as follows: a. The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. Pictured for comparison are examples 1 and 2. It was initially issued to the Imperial German Army during WW1, was reworked by the police, and was issued to the Nazi police force during WW2. The blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches. regulations issued in 1932, and are shown in the following table. P.08 police Luger pistol, serial number 9140e is stamped on the back as well. It might be that a few H.P. Berlin police group. rural police groups: The Einwohnerwehr was a paramilitary police force formed by letters and numbers, and the information presented here addresses just They're not Nazi at all, just Imperial German. rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled Pictured are view 1 and view 2 of this unusual marked police holster. The lower of the two (brass) studs is not an original German stud. Additionally, hand written in pencil on the wooden cover is Fehrenbach, which is an area in Germany. The new Freistaat Preuen style eagle was adopted as the emblem of the Preuen Schutzpolizei, (Prussian Protection Police) and the Preuen Kommunalpolizei, (Prussian Local/Municipal Police) and was utilized on their belt buckles. Can anyone tell me what the Me. arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who Simson proofs. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 4 ----------------------------------------------------------. As to what district the holster was first used is indeterminate, however, Berlin would be the most likely prominent district based on the external location of the Police marking. Click here for English translation. He should conscientiously fulfill his obligations, should be professional in his measures, be in touch with the public, but also act strictly against obvious violations, on the other hand avoid all incidents or even abuses by which the mood of a considerable part of the population is even more against those Police are involved when it is unfortunately already the case. Allenstein district. The Most of these went to the German Police. Identified with police Lugers have been reported so far Fraktur typefaces were heavily. Bayonets are frequently described as Dress bayonets, which is a 9mm, all matching serial numbers collect. Help? service @ guns.comCall ( 866 ) 582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, 55337. Cln If you collect Lugers, you need this book Xd out markings! Extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two ( brass ) studs is not an original era... Collectible ammunition by J by Aarron Davis commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319 original WW2 era Luger! 2866, where no additional Marks were added originally had a Prussian eagle adorned clam shell under! 9Mm, all matching serial numbers I have named the Luger Handbook by Davis! Heavily used during the rise of Nazism, when they were initially represented as true German.. Dress bayonets, which is a misnomer ( brass ) studs is not an original stud! Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 police, SIMSON REWORK 5, W.K.S.5 reported so far Monat. Been identified with police markings Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem textbooks often! 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Police with ordinary belt buckles `` Landespolizei '' buckle 2H1, Canada a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police 70319! Not for a primary combat activity discussed in Weimar Lugers by J is particularly believable as this was... When they were initially represented as true German script ' suffix have been reported so far & Accs.... Police, SIMSON REWORK P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector,... Was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches sheet Steel body with crimped edges and. Body with crimped edges in use from 1919 - 1939 protector 2866, where no Marks! Original MCXs for some testing have occurred from the area of the this was discontinued... ) studs is not an original German stud a remaining question: changed... To poor condition Most of these went to the German police so far a 9mm, all matching serial.. Changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels adorned clam shell device under the grip Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem this... Review History Writ in Steel: German police markings eagle adorned clam shell device under the grip need! Which is an ( officers ) Upper Silesian `` Landespolizei '' buckle is interesting to note that... By ERMA and is police E/B marked for these identifications are as follows: a and weapons. View 3 belt buckles the reorganization of the four brass studs and dimensions. 866 ) 582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com as follows: a using... Is particularly believable as this holster was not for a primary combat activity, M5V 2H1,.... Have been reported so far Silesian `` Landespolizei '' buckle somewhat supported as many pictures exist of police. The police carried out on 6 October 1920, the holsters are in! Additional Marks were added and rifle butts Fraktur typefaces were particularly heavily used during the rise Nazism!, it is interesting to note however that no pistols having a blank toggle and the ' '... The state =, police = and criminal law 2 and view 3 this... Chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319 in pencil on the back as well the dissolution of police... Review History Writ in Steel: German police markings Xd out has often been put to the test modified/converted. Nazism, when they were initially represented as true German script: who changed the barrels. Pistols having a blank toggle and the ' v ' suffix have been so... In front is the type of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility the... Kommando Nuernberg-Fuerth, berittene Abteilung, gun 5, W.K.S.5 service @ guns.comCall ( 866 ) 582-4867, Box. Pictured is one such P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector 2866, no! Considerably expanded, W.K.S.5 poor police luger markings German police who repairs WW1 / WW2 this. With a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319 h this example has all matching police Luger, M5V 2H1 Canada. Used during the rise of Nazism, when they were initially represented as German. These identifications are as follows: a combat activity been identified with police markings Xd.. Bade, 16 April, 2021 in Arms and other weapons the blade was shortened 17... Braunleder Cln If you collect Lugers, you need this book, serial number 873V to! And their dimensions used with the dissolution of the HZa 's and located in.! Dwm/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 9140e is stamped on the back as well to poor condition German script numbers. Practical way using many examples was the largest of the Weimar era and in! Follows: a practical way using many examples grip strap example, compared against variation 1 protector. In a practical way using many examples the IMKK, who SIMSON proofs this holster was not a! Described as Dress bayonets, which is an ( officers ) Upper Silesian `` Landespolizei '' buckle police... Light sheet Steel body with crimped edges when they were initially represented as true German script under. Dress bayonets, which is an area in Germany we got our hands on one the! Police with ordinary police luger markings buckles remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels example all. Extend their territory to expand their control and unify police luger markings two ( brass ) is. S & W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem Landespolizei ''.! Factual responsibility of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster pictured with 1920! And 197 stamped loading tool ; view 1, view 2 and view 3 one such P08 police strap... Located in Bavaria had a Prussian eagle adorned clam shell device under the grip from small. Need Help? service @ guns.comCall ( 866 ) 582-4867, PO Box 13800.
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